from Richard Rhinehart (Tuesday, July 10, 2001 6:22 AM)
Subject: [Fwd: Fly, Marble and Cave Creek Caverns News] 

  
 Greetings All: 
  
 Since it is several months to our next Colorado Cave Survey meeting 
 (probably September or October), I thought I'd send a note regarding some 
 current Colorado Cave Survey and caving news. 
  
 1. Cave Creek Cavern:  Fred Luiszer discovered in early June that the spring 
 thaw at Cave Creek Cavern resulted in a small slide of dirt and rock into 
 the cave. Fortunately, the cave entrance had been covered with a sheet of 
 plywood at the end of the last season, so most of the debris did not fall 
 into the descending tube. On June 30, several cavers accompanied Fred to the 
 cave to remove the remaining debris (Jim Neely, Mark Maslyn, Roger Cain and 
 I participated). 
  
 Re-excavating the shaft, the cavers ended up removing several of the old 
 mine timbers that had been used for shoring in 1996. The result is that the 
 entrance seems a little safer and more stable than it has for several years. 
 Unfortunately, the descending passage is temporarily blocked with debris 
 that fell past the guarding plywood. It will take one or more small cavers 
 to slide down the nearly choked passage to the larger passage below, who can 
 then dig back up to the entrance, opening it once again to cavers of all 
 sizes. 
  
 Once the descending passage is reopened, Fred will attempt to schedule a 
 trip with the District Ranger of the Pike National Forest so that he can see 
 the cave. This spring's collapse is a good reason for installing an entrance 
 culvert that will continue to provide safe and easy access to the cave. 
 Hopefully, Fred can schedule the trip for later this summer. 
  
 2. Fly and Marble Caves: Mike Behn, Ed LaRock and I met with David 
 Blackwell, the new owner of Fly and Marble caves on June 23. Our meeting and 
 tour of the caves went very well. David is very interested in working with 
 the Cave Survey to provide continuing access to these interesting beginner 
 caves. 
  
 David agreed that gates are probably not necessary at this time. He is 
 interested, however, in putting chain link fencing with locked gates around 
 the cave entrances. Most likely, he'll install these fences sometime this 
 year and will provide the Survey with the combination to the locks. 
  
 Access to qualified cavers will be restricted to one weekend per month: I am 
 suggesting the fourth weekend to be the formal project weekend. There are 
 currently no restrictions as to the number of cavers or the number of trips 
 per day or weekend. Cavers will need to complete and sign a liability waiver 
 prior to the trip (similar to Groaning Cave). In discussions with David, we 
 determined that waivers can be distributed by Cave Survey representatives at 
 grotto meetings and collected to a central Cave Survey file. Combinations to 
 the locks on the fences will also be distributed by the Survey (when the 
 fences are installed). 
  
 I'd like to establish a formal project within the survey to coordinate and 
 manage access to the caves. Perhaps we can call this the "Garden Park 
 Project." Like the Groaning Cave access committee, this projected new 
 committee does not need to be consisted of survey representatives. Each 
 grotto in Colorado wishing to participate in the project can elect or 
 appoint a representative on an annual basis. Hopefully, a formal project 
 committee can establish a set of guidelines and policies for trips to the 
 caves that we can present to David. Our first task will be to develop a 
 liability waiver (I have asked Glenwood Caverns for a copy of their waiver). 
  
 There are many activities that can be done at the caves. We talked to David 
 and he is interested in seeing an overland survey between the caves, 
 scientific studies (geology and biology), cave restoration and even digging 
 (Fly Cave was blowing very strongly the day we were there). Of course, the 
 caves will continue to serve as excellent beginner caves. 
  
 Until we develop a formal waiver and at least a preliminary set of 
 guidelines for visits, we should all respect the private property and 
 discourage trips to these caves for the time being. I imagine we can 
 probably have the caves open for cavers by this autumn if we can set up a 
 project. By the way, David said he would help find who is the current owner 
 of Wilson's Cave, another area cave that has been officially closed to 
 visits since the early 1970s. 
  
 I'm interested in any suggestions any of you may have regarding these caves 
 and the establishment of a project to manage access. If anyone is interested 
 in participating in the project management, or know someone in your grotto 
 who would like to participate, please advise. 
  
 3. "Journey Into Amazing Caves": Though this is not exactly Cave Survey 
 business, many of you might be interested to learn the Denver Museum of 
 Nature and Science has backed out of its commitment to bring the movie to 
 Denver beginning on July 27. No new date has been set for its premiere. The 
 Museum also cancelled a slide presentation about caves that Hazel Barton was 
 to have presented as a part of the Museum's lecture series. It's uncertain 
 if the movie will ever be shown at the Museum, despite a overwhelmingly 
 successful sneak preview Memorial Day weekend. 
  
 Richard Rhinehart 
 Colorado Cave Survey Chairman